Albion Production

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Albion Production

Postby Ginger » 10th Dec 14, 16:04

People still go on about the production on Albion? I honestly don't get it. Especially when it is compared to albums that have zero lyrical quality whatsoever.

Okay, so some people don't get Albion, but comparing Chateanef-de-Pape with Cava illustrates more about the person than the product.

It's a very heavy album, lyrically, and certainly not for everyone. But saying they don't like the production is like saying they don't like a picture because of the frame, or the shop it's sitting in.

Me? I still listen to music on a stereo and have yet to love and album that I even care about the production of. Does this make me more of a music lover? No, just less of a critic.

Let them eat generic pap.

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Re: Albion Production

Postby andyh » 10th Dec 14, 16:49

As far as I remember most of the discussion regarding Albion's production arose after you wrote something on Twitter during the listening party about wishing you'd been there for the final mix of the album, at which point a whole lot of armchair music production experts suddenly piped up saying they didn't like the way it had been produced, which seemed to carry on even after you later qualified that statement by saying that there were only a few minor tweaks you would have made which it was highly unlikely those of us not in the know would even have noticed.

It's definitely an album that needs several listens to get, but most of the best ones are, and personally I loved it.
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Re: Albion Production

Postby fabrice » 10th Dec 14, 17:41

Crisizing Albion production is very perfidious (very bad pun i admit it) :coat:
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Re: Albion Production

Postby Rabies » 10th Dec 14, 17:50

The production sounded quite odd at the very first listen - just being a bit reverb heavy and, well, different to most modern productions. But that lasted about 20 seconds before my ears didn't care any more and the music was by far the most important thing. Since that first listen, I've never noticed it.
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Re: Albion Production

Postby andyh » 10th Dec 14, 18:34

It's also maybe a matter of expectation. Nobody complained about the production on Error 500 because they were expecting it to sound batshit insane, whereas to take an obvious example a lot of folks were initially quite taken aback by Endless Nameless because it was such a radical departure from the The Wildhearts' previous sound at that time. 555% sounded very shiny so maybe some people were expecting Albion to have more of a 'conventional' rock production, whatever that means. As far as I'm concerned though you either like the songs or you don't, and I'm quite happy to leave any thoughts about production to the professionals.
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Re: Albion Production

Postby Knetan » 10th Dec 14, 20:51

Each to his own if they present a constructive opinion but I have trouble taking anyone seriously who opens with rubbish or shit. Me, I have very poor ears for what is considered good or not but if music comes through to ME, if lyrics come through to ME and MY experience is solidified (especially when they come through in a way where I'm actually fond of an album), there's no complaints. Albion was and is still an experience I'm incredibly fond of.

In both the exclusive Pledge cut of it and the regular version with less songs. Both experiences have a purpose for me and I think even you Ginger said that the commercially available cut of Albion plays well and to your liking. If talking amount of songs and not production for one brief moment.
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Re: Albion Production

Postby MaddMatt » 11th Dec 14, 00:20

It's a great album with some of my favorite tunes and lyrics on it. I will say that's it's one of the only albums I've heard where there is an audible (to me) difference between mp3 and cd. Maybe because there are so many layers and so much going on. I love the sound of the record, big, bold and laden with quality.
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Re: Albion Production

Postby Mattie » 11th Dec 14, 01:31

Starting with a repeat of my post on facebook...

'It isn't fucked by excessive sibilance, therefore it sounds good to me. I have some decent (not high end but good enough) earphones and some albums are unlistenable, fatiguing and genuinely painful!" (I shouldn't have used the word unlistenable, in hindsight & given my next paragraph)

To add to that, even for albums that do fatigue my ears through my headphones, it doesn't stop me listening to them, and enjoying them, it just stops me playing them as obsessively as I did an album like Albion (and any of your releases, to be an arse-kisser) but that's not something everyone wil hear anyway. Maybe it's just because I'm listening through a phone! If people listen to Electric River's 'In Faith & Patience' they might hear what I mean, still a bloody good album though.

I just don't understand why, these days, everyone sems to revel in being a fucking critic. It's like everyone wants to prove they've got immaculate taste, fuck that. Surely one of the most soulless and least enjoyable jobs in the world is listening / watching something PURELY to pick fault with it and do it down.

I'm not saying everyone needs to like everything, but accentuate the positives, mention the negatives if you feel them but don't make them the whole point of your opinion, find what you do like, embrace those things, let people know what they might get from it, SAY it isn't for you, be objective without being an arsehole. Is it that difficult?
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Re: Albion Production

Postby catharsis630 » 11th Dec 14, 16:39

personally it's one of my favorite ginger releases, it has so much variety and I honestly have no fucking clue why so many people complained about the production initially or why this even came up again. one of the -few- minor complaints i can think of is the beginning heavy section of cambria sounds a bit muddy (coincidentally one of my favorite songs on the album, go figure). other than that I think the sound quality and dynamics work quite well.
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Re: Albion Production

Postby buddhafella » 11th Dec 14, 16:50

I always recall a story the singer of Monster Magnet told about how whenever they think they’ve finished a song they put it on cassette and go and listen to it on an old battered boom box in their practice room. If it sounds good on that it’ll sound good anywhere.

I personally think there are more things you shouldn’t do with a production than things you should.
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Re: Albion Production

Postby ChickenDhansak » 11th Dec 14, 21:50

yay - I remembered my password!

I'm not a musician nor an engineer, just a fan of music. I love Albion (the song itself is has to be in the top ten of all time ever), and I have no complaints. The only Ginger album which I can hear a production difference is Yoni, but again, I think that has been mentioned previously.
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Re: Albion Production

Postby Ginger » 12th Dec 14, 13:58

Yeah, I have wanted to remix and remaster Yoni since it was done, but now I think it would spoil the story. Like photo shopping all the pictures where you looked like a goon in the 80's, or had acne at 13.

Now I'm happy that it represents the 'tinny' album, and wouldn't touch it for the world.

I agree with what someone said earlier on here, listening to music to find fault with it must be the least enjoyable exercise known to man. There are some very strange people out there.

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Re: Albion Production

Postby catharsis630 » 12th Dec 14, 17:12

yoni's another one that I hear mentioned and don't understand. maybe it's because it was my first ginger album I ever bought (thanks to a recommendation by Devin Townsend in an article on metal sucks that included the song Jake) but I freaken love that album and hear nothing wrong with it. maybe I'm just not an audophile. tinny? perhaps. bad? not by any means.

by the way Ginger, my wife and I met you last year when you came to NYC for the GWB meet & greet (you signed her poster "welcome to the family" because she's a new fan, thought that was classy). anyway she asked you to play "this bed is on fire" which you said you didn't know how. it's a shame yoni doesn't get any live representation. anyway, just wanted to say thanks for a great pair of shows (wildhearts and GWB).
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Re: Albion Production

Postby Knetan » 12th Dec 14, 17:25

Semi related to the Yoni process or maybe not, I think Terry Gilliam said it best when he said he saw tons of flaws and faults in Brazil but wouldn't change a thing as that was Terry at that time creating and approving of his creativity mid experience as well as the post experience. Yoni is an excellent album where if someone says tinny, yes I can hear it but it in NO WAY puts a cloud over a collection of fantastic songs. Including The Night I Was Born Again which is incredibly inspiring.
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Re: Albion Production

Postby baratron » 17th Dec 14, 01:28

The one thing I'd say about Albion (or Ablion, as I still call it) is that it sounds fantastic on a half-decent stereo, but a bit mushy on a shite stereo. Simply because it has so many layers.

Now, it could be argued that people who listen to music on shite stereos have only themselves to blame, but it depends on how much money you've got to spend on equipment in the first place, and then how much you can afford to replace it when it wears out. We actually have a stereo in every room of this house except the bathroom, and two of them are old enough that the speakers are knackered. Albion sounds amazing in the front room upstairs and the bedroom, okay in the kitchen, pretty muffled in my study, and I've never actually tried listening to it in the dining room. It also sounds absolutely fine through my laptop speakers and iPod headphones, but shite through my iPod dock. Although we only use the iPod dock when camping, so that isn't so much of a problem. And I haven't yet found an album which doesn't sound shite through it.

Having said that, we played it for the first time in the kitchen when we were getting dinner ready, and Drive grabbed me right from the start. I still think that Drive and The Order of the Dog are the catchiest songs on there. It took me a relatively long time to "get" Cambria because I don't like distorted noise, but then I kept finding myself singing it ;). And we're sitting listening to it in the study right now because it's where we usually eat dinner (what with the dining room being downstairs), and enjoying it perfectly well.

I think people talk about the production because it's easier than talking about their emotional responses to songs. Or because they don't know enough musical terminology to talk about the songs themselves. Albion the song just came on, and I'm sitting here going "I really like this weird key that the verse is in", but I couldn't tell you if it's a straight minor or augmented or diminished or what. (It reminds me of Rush, but that isn't a bad thing. But it doesn't sound like Rush, it just reminds me of them. The widdly bit in the middle sounds like Rush). And I even studied music theory once, it was just over 20 years ago.

Whereas clear vs muffled, bassy vs tinny - these terms are easily understood, so people talk about them. And talk out of their arses about them ;).
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